usfs helicopter rates

Thats discouraging as it suggests that the customer really isnt listening and just providing the perception of doing so.your point of just not choosing to submit if an operator doesnt like it is incredibly insensitive and uninformed. Personnel and Equipment: 219 total personnel; 2 helicopters, 14 Type-6 engines, 13 Type-2 tractor plow units, 1 drone, . Fire fighting tools, food and water are dropped by parachute to the firefighters after they land near the firemaking them self-sufficient for the first 48 hours. 0000002454 00000 n Aviation for Regions 3,4,6,8 & Booklets), FS 0000000016 00000 n Ordering instructions contained within each contract or agreement should be followed. Staffing Report, NIROPS Thats what happens when non-aviation people get put it charge of aviation programs. Qualification Category. CWN rotor craft normally have a daily rate and a flight rate. It just will. Provides support to both the Aviation and Logistics Branch Chiefs Hawaii beats the national average by 4.2%, and Tennessee furthers that trend with another $4,165 (5.9%) above the $71,117. But they wont tell us when they are doing that, just that as we bid on EU work within the CWN contract eventually they are going to want modern helicopters. Guess what those choppers wont have cockpit cameras or loudspeakers or TAS. Yes, the customer is the FS. For an operator to be competitive in the LPTA world, you need to amortize the cost of the a/c over 10 years or more. The U.S. Forest Service (FS) is expecting to contract for 48 Type 1 helicopters for the 2021 wildfire season. A .gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United States. 0000000923 00000 n Your input allows us to recognize outstanding service and also provides a tool to address areas of industry concern. Resource Library (Handbooks, Guides Same thing with Erickson. Furthermore the numbers they provide are usually . Maybe all of the experienced aviation folks you mention are part of this have never actually had to buy a multi-million a/c, maintain it, crew it and ensure that its operable? Although I dont know if this counts as a legacy platform. A 407 isnt a twin, even tho a 407hp will outperform all the above as a type III. They are usually contracted for 5 years. Aircraft Engineering Services The agreements and contracts you are about to view have been established for government aviation users whose agencies have formal agreements with DOI, Interior Business Center, Acquisitions Services Directorate (AQD) and are authorized to order services from those agreements and contracts. 0000001014 00000 n The Aviation Branch supports the acquisition of Airtankers, Helicopters, Light Fixed Wing Aircraft, Modular Airborne Fire Fighting System (MAFFS) maintenance, Large Jet Transport and related aviation support including aircraft maintenance, consulting, aircraft purchase, contract pilots and aircraft equipment. Region 6 Cache Freight Services, Bryce Pitchford,Contracting Officer Entities without current agreements may contact the IBC-AQD Business Management Specialist at 208-433-5025. startxref There are still going to be normal cwn helicopters. Faintly, what are the advertisement you see posted on this site? @RtS1yD &LS,60E0U22U0J7gm:b|gY. I also assume that the CO just channeled the PM and HSs needs for the program. AMD-23E Instructions for USFS National Type 1 & 2 Call When Needed (CWN) Contract Helicopters hired for DOI Incidents. Helicopters conducting mission flights shall check-in prior to and immediately after each takeoff/landing, as soon as communications can be established, per the NWCG Standards for Helicopter Operations (PMS 510) Chapter 04, page 30. It seems nothing is making sense anymore, and we are destined to fail if this shortsightedness is allowed to continue. These proposed contract changes have made working for USFS impossible for most all operators especially restricted categories that will all be phased out when the new 2000 or newer requirement takes affect. Chattanooga Air Tanker Base Agreement. They will tell you they have their smerfs.SMEs ( who typically are cradle to grave beuracrats as well), who are supposedly dialed in on the subject matter surerightlmao What do you do with an expensive asset like a helo when youre only customer suggests to just not submit? There is a question and answer phase that allows anyone to submit questions and the answers will be posted on the SAM site. I find it interesting that the WFT crowd is pro a next gen, advanced air tanker fleet (including the funding required) but is up in arms about a next gen, advanced helicopter fleet. . The FS doesnt seem to trust the input from the industry on this, so maybe the FS should ask the people who provide the mortgage? NWCG operations standards are interagency by design; they are developed with the intent of universal adoption by the member agencies. AMS - Aviation Management System (AMD-23E) 2016 Fire Suppression Order Numbers. Well, maybe in some locations. The U.S. Forest Service, the agency responsible for awarding federal contracts for large air tankers and firefighting helicopters, is proposing a number of very significant changes to the helicopter contracts. Thank you. If it aint broke, dont try to fix it. Office: (208) 387-5670 Mobile: (208) 616-5547 These standards assign typing designations based on measurable capability and performance criteria. Obviously another FS fella here. Helicopters have a tank of flammable product and a flare and are used to burn down wooded areas in prescribed burning and fire areas. Anyone else seeing a trend, that they like to spend money on the most expensive piece of equipment they can find, including fixed wings. Aerial Supervision Module (ASM) Lead Planes The day started at 10 a.m. around a truck bed fully stocked with boxes of discount croissants, a bag of clementines, and a stack of Incident Action Plan packets. We can only hope the upcoming DOI on-call helicopter RFP due out later this year isnt so crazy. The Incident Command System (ICS) uses this system based on the equipment capability. The Cal Fire owns a fleet of UH-1 Huey, rigged with Bambis or HBE Simplex Kits, depending on the geographic areas they must cover. Please help us improve by taking a few moments to complete our voluntary USFS Fire Industry feedback form. Budget Coordinator *Sensor payloads are variable but typically include daylight (electro-optical), infrared (IR), thermal, or mapping cameras. Office: (208) 387-5682 Mobile: (208) 407-6003, Andrea Marks-Cash, Contract Specialist The States contracted for Fed approved airtankers so just like we all share resources like engines and shot crews now we can share airtankers too. Typos or errors, report them, Rappeller training in Idaho modified for COVID-19, Contracts to be awarded for 28 Type 1 firefighting helicopters, 41 Companies on $1B Forest Service Helicopter Support Contract, Updates on Nob Fire and WatchDuty is looking for help, North Carolina: Great Lakes Fire burning in footprint of 2012 fire. Your last sentence in the nail in the coffin.seeing as that this contract will be LPTA and a year to year option, how do you finance a new a/c that will surely be $2-$4M on the low end? The Incident Support Branch (ISB) at the National Interagency Fire Center (NIFC) is located in Boise, Idaho. These helicopters can support firefighters on the ground by delivering up to 300 gallons of water to thefirelinein a bucket or tank. One vendor said new requirements could reduce the number of helicopters on contract. NWCG typing standards enable accurate ordering and acquisition of needed resources in support of nationally interoperable wildland fire operations. 2023 US FOREST SERVICE AIRTANKERS - SCHEDULE OF ITEMS (April 26, 2023) Next Generation Airtankers 2.0 Next Generation Airtankers 3.0 CWN Activations. 0000001945 00000 n Ignoring the facts of what that aircraft can actually carry, not what the vendor claims. Look at the LATs this year. Share sensitive information only on official, secure websites. Initial attack/can be broken up into squads, fireline construction, complex firing operations (backfire). The cheapest camera we could find is $10,000. I think you answered your own question with why are they only replacing type II and III legacy platforms and not type I? As for air assets, Tankers dominate the sky. Fires are taking place in sometimes isolated areas, and this ancestral technique is very widely used, allowing firefighters to block the fire thus depriving it of fuel. Aye, Laddie. Yes (work and train as a unit 40 hours per week. jtaris@aspentimes.com. Do any of you FS boys understand how capitalism works? 30 0 obj <>stream We operate Type III helicopters and are now faced with 40lbs+ of equipment (costing over $60k per aircraft) to meet minimum requirements things that we really dont need like a Traffic Avoidance System (but the ADS-B they required last year isnt good enough) and a loudspeaker (because yelling at the fire helps?). Access to these sites is restricted and the information and files provided through these sites is not intended for general disclosure or distribution to anyone other than Authorized Government Representatives and solely for the purpose of facilitating the performance of their Official Duties with respect to their administration of these contracts. Helicopters were first used on wildfires in 1947. If helicopters are widely used in the USA to fight forest fires, they can also be used to burn them. There is no cost, and in case you change your mind each email has an unsubscribe button. Each rate covers all costs eligible under the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. They may also be federal agencies such as Indian Affairs or the Bureau of Land Management, who are responsible for natural areas that must be fought against forest fires. Agency Abbreviation. So this all begs a question how do we bridge the gap here? I also think your comments are short sighted on Bills pandering to industry. To meet this commitment, we continue to monitor and update our content to make sure our documents meet these standards. These aircraft are classified in three categories, depending on their capabilities, categories that also determine the value of the contracts. The Logistics Branch provides support for WO Fire & Aviation Operations customers (located at NIFC) with the procurement of (urgent/immediate)incidentresources, such as retardant chemicals and related services, mobile food services, mobile shower facilities, firefighting crews, Critical Incident Stress Management Services (CISM) and National Videographer/Photographer Services. Personnel shall meet the qualification requirements of. Under contract this season there are 28 heavyweights, including Kaman KMax, CH-46, CH-47, S-70, CH-54 and S-61 from a dozen companies. The reason your seeing all the blackhawk bucket ships is because you can buy a milsurp bird for less than 2$ million and be flying on a fire for less than 5. Additional information for required crew training and equipment recommendations can be found at the position catalog. Normally both are higher with a CWN. I know we arent alone in how upset we are with the Forest Service right now. Live Flight Tracking, Rappel If any of those folks everrrrrr knew what it takes to run a rotary operation. GVWR = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. They are capable of carrying four to five firefighters at a time, and use a 180 gallon water bucket. TFRs List/Map, Nat'l NIFC is home to the national fire management programs of each federal fire agency, along with partners including the National Association of State Foresters, the U.S. Fire Administration, and the National Weather Service. For an operator to be competitive in the LPTA world, you need to amortize the cost of the a/c over 10 years or more. 6-month Exclusive Use (EU) contract extensions for 34 - Type 2 helicopters with contracts expiring in 2022, utilizing BOAs for remaining EU line items. Fire Cacheis asupply of fire tools and equipment assembled in planned quantities or standard units at a strategic point for exclusive use in fire suppression. Aero Flite, Aero Air, and Neptune all swapped out some EU aircraft but each still has the same number of allocated slots. I remember seeing N1168U on the LP & Southern Sierras in the 80s! Incident Procurement Modernization Team Member. With the twin engine requirement would a K-Max also be DQd? Potentially an EU ship could sit all season and never turn a rotor and they would only collect the daily rate. Thats discouraging as it suggests that the customer really isnt listening and just providing the perception of doing so.your point of just not choosing to submit if an operator doesnt like it is incredibly insensitive and uninformed. %PDF-1.6 % However cwn have a slower response time because they are not usually fully staffed. Lots more. Nevertheless, in recent years, with the current situation, CWN aircraft have often been used. The difference is there are very few air tankers compared to helicopters on EU and CWN contracts. We operate Type III helicopters and are now faced with 40lbs+ of equipment (costing over $60k per aircraft) to meet minimum requirements - things that we really don't need like a Traffic Avoidance System (but the ADS-B they required last year isn't good enough) and a loudspeaker (because yelling at the fire helps? Fax: (208) 387-5384, https://www.fs.usda.gov/managing-land/fire/contracting, Important Information Regarding the COVID-19 Pandemic, Access to the U.S. Forest Service Contracting, Incident Support Branch, DOI SharePoint Page must be granted individually. All perpetuated by the Gov. Nevertheless, the aviation branch of the US Forest Service is often seen as a versatile administration, without any long-term vision, with abrupt and sometimes difficult to understand decisions and against which innumerable legal proceedings and even lawsuits are brought by its subcontractors and those who are in line to become one. Aviation Management, NPS All water tenders and engine types 3 through 6 shall be able to prime and pump water from a 10 foot lift. Always use the applicable contract, CO/COR for specific contract administration information. These standards assign typing designations based on measurable capability and performance criteria. Things like long term stability, Banking considerations and finance never enter into the Governments equation. I do not know of any small operators who can afford to buy new ships, if any are even available. I may be incorrect in this, but I think the less than excited response from industry is based on them providing questions and input to the PM, HS and CO and getting pretty unsatisfactory responses. Most smokejumpers work from late spring through early fall. Typos, let us know, and please keep in mind the commenting ground rules before you post a comment. Office: (208) 387-5350Mobile: (208) 258-1450, Tessa Bach, Contract Coordinator November 25, 2017 Revision 2.8 . National Geographic Area Coordination Center Website Portal And then everything over 4 hours is paid too obviously. Type 2 helicopters are very effective initial attack resources. Aviation Safety Management System, IAT Todd thanks for chiming in. A Department of Defense liaison was added as a permanent partner at NIFC in 2008. agency that, more and more, is becoming its own worst enemy, as well as ours! Smokejumper Aircraft There are certainly concerns with moving to a twin engine platform related to performance, and Im not currently versed enough in all of the platforms to have an opinion, but I do know that this article doesnt address it and instead seems to be a sounding board for industry without presenting the case for increased firefighter safety and performance in modern aircraft. This second list was released by the agency May 13 and is a result of a solicitation requesting bidsfor 30 helicopters that were already on Call When Needed contracts in three tiers capable of lifting up to 1,600, 3,300, or 7,000 pounds. In other locations they would just shrug their shoulders and walk away. Aircraft types: P2V, HC-130H, BAe-146, MD-87, C-130Q, RJ85, C-130 H & J equipped with Modular Airborne Fire Fighting Systems (MAFFS). National Interagency Aviation Committee (, Incident and Position Standards Committee (. TheNWCG Standards for Wildland Fire Resource Typingis jointly developed and maintained bythe following National Wildfire Coordinating Group (NWCG) committees and their subgroups: While they may contain current or useful information, previous versions are obsolete. Where the CWN is available cost per a number of days, or per day, and the flight rate as shown on the Hopps meter. Once we get all of that figured out, turns out that the increase in performance specifications at 7,000 / 30C combined with the added equipment pretty much eliminates legacy ships from meeting performance requirements. Companies like Columbia and Erickson are considered too big now. They can typically carry 700 gallons of water or retardant via a bucket or a snorkel that fills an internal tank. Tanked helicopters with snorkel capabilities can draft from open water sources. PDF Fillable Forms must be downloaded to your computer, you can then open them up in your Adobe Reader or Adobe Acrobat software to fill them in and save. Most aircraft manufacturers provide a document illustrating the operating costs for each of their models but it's hard to tell how accurate their estimates are (they are trying to sell you a helicopter after all). Aviation for Region 2 For point-to-point flights, AFF flight following may be used as well. Faintly, what are the advertisement you see posted on this site? Calfire is seeing right now how much NOT an upgrade they really are and how they are just too big for some things. Aviation for Regions 1, 2, & 9, 10 The Huey will soon give way to the S-70 FireHawk, a model close to the aircraft operated in the Los Angeles County Fire Department, which will be a clear progression of air assets for the state of California. The single vs twin vs safety argument doesnt have a clear winner unless youre talking about CAT A capable aircraft. Office: (208) 387-5835 Mobile: (208) 407-6002 Airtankers There are two kinds of USFS contracts. We all understand that. On the CWN list, Aero Flite went from four to one aircraft and Coulson dropped their L-382G and substituted a B-737 which began working in North America for the first time last week. What will replace a 407 for a Type III ship? Basic firefighter training and/or annual firelinesafety refresher prior to assignment, Arrives with: Crew first aid kit, personal first aid kit, headlamp, 1-qt canteen, web gear, sleeping bag. Thank you. This change will be a double edged sword..as operators cannot meet requirements or afford changes they will shut their doors and then already limited resources will be permanently removed for fire. Nope. More insanity from the USFS ! Have a fire aviation news tip? NIFC Operations Support 0000007535 00000 n Call-When-Needed (CWN) Amphibious Water Scooper Aircraft Its driving us away from government work and Im truly worried about the availability of rotor assets next year if they end up going through with this wish list RFP. SD3-60 Sherpas;Avionics; Maintenance Give me a break. Oh and theres a reason for the price difference, all the vendors you see with blackhawks have restricted category aircraft. GPS Visualizer - Convert Coordinates. Contractor Performance Assessment Reporting System (CPARS) Focal Point, Mike McFarlane,Contracting Officer Why are only Types III and II legacy helicopters being phased out? Southern Area Regional Coordination Group Operating Plan. Office: (208) 387-5665 Mobile: (208) 616-5549, NIFC Operations Support What happens when they implement it towards Type Is? Maybe the PM, HS and the CO should talk to some a/c financing companies to better understand the reality of upgrading or buying new equipment. Crews from the White River National Forest, Bureau of Land Management, and Aspen Fire executed a prescribed burn at Collins Creek on Sunday.

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